Something I have been meaning to write about for a couple of weeks now has been this year’s Mighty Mitts competition.
What is Mighty Mitts?, you might ask…
Mighty Mitts is a Grip Contest that takes place at The Arnold Sports Festival on the main stage at the expo hall.
That’s right, on the very same stage as the Arnold Strongman Competition and many other forms of competition (including Bodybuilding, Fitness, Figure, and more) there will be Mighty Mitts.
I was in the inaugural Mighty Mitts competition in 2010, and was chosen for Mighty Mitts 2011, but I had injured my hands to the point that I could not train my Grip with any sort of intensity from the middle of February to the end of April.
However, this year, I have put in my resume to be considered once again.
With all that aside, I just want to point out that this is a HUGE development for the sport of Grip, and I want everyone to understand just how big this is.
Now, I don’t know just how many people attend this Festival each year, but it is probably more than 50,000 people, and that may not even be close. If anyone reading this post has been there, they can tell you just how much of a madhouse the Arnold Classic can be. Having a Grip Contest at the Arnold Classic is an opportunity for THOUSANDS of people to find out about it.
And this year, the Sorinex company, and in particular, Richard Sorin, has truly stepped up to the plate to support the Mighty Mitts contest. Without getting into specifics, Richard and his company will be supplying a Hotel Room, Travel Expense coverage, and a daily food allowance for all of the competitors (the hotel room will be split, I believe).
To me, this is just amazing support of the sport that I love. I actually have a hard time putting into words just how much I appreciate this kind of support. Whether I get selected to compete or not, it is going to be an awesome contest and an unbelievable opportunity for exposure for the sport.
I, for one, am extremely appreciative of everything that Richard Sorin and Sorinex are doing this year.
It will be great to be up on the stage once again in from of 1000 people or more. If you are there, then I hope to hear you chanting DIESEL or NAPALM, or just my name.
Now, it is just a matter of time, waiting to hear the roster and whose names are selected for the list.
I will keep you updated as I hear more. For now, I just wanted to share the awesome news.
I would be doing you all a disservice by not posting this video.
Prepare to be blown away by the most amazing Euro Pinch Set-up ever designed, owned by the Texas White Boy Rapper, Paul “Up All Night” Knight and Certified Red Nail Bender and Horseshoe Bending Pioneer, Eric “The Pointed Goatee” Milfeld.
Now, if you are clueless as to what the heck is going on with this video, let me point a few things out.
In Grip, everything is weighed to precise measurements in order to calculate exactly how much is being weighed. So, we don’t just count 4-25′s as 100-lbs. In reality, each plate is most likely off by a few ounces, so we either take our plates to a post office or we calibrate a scale we own against another calibrated scale and we identify the exact weight of each plate.
For instance, if you saw all of my plates that are used in competitions here, you will see that each one of them has a number on it and it has the weight in pounds and ounces. So, a certain 25-lb plate might be marked with the number 17 and have 24 – 14.4 on it. That means that this specific plate was identified as being weight number 17 and it weighs 24-lbs, 14.4-oz. I then log that into an Excel spreadsheet and am able to calculate exactly how much weight is being lifted on each attempt.
What Eric Milfeld and Paul Knight have done is they have modified the internal rubber inserts so that the base apparatus weighs exactly 38 kilos, so they are starting with a nice round number each time. If you are doing everything on paper, which some do, this can make it a lot easier to count everything up. Normally adding things up on paper is a giant pain in the ass, but Eric and Paul have also gone to the expense of purchasing calibrated lifting plates, so they are dealing with a series of nice round numbers, instead of having to add up 2 to 4 decimal places on a sheet of paper – AWESOME!
Why a fiberglass cross-bar you might ask? In the past everything from rulers to elastic cord to steel bars have been used for the corss-bar or stick. Each material has it’s own benefits and risks. For instance, we used a long metal ruler one year for our stick. Everything was awesome until John Mannino missed an attempt and got fired up about it and pushed down on the metal ruler and bent it.
In 2008, I traveled 8 hours to compete in a Grip Contest and had the World Record weighton the apparatus. Thee “stick” cross-bar being used was made of either steel or possible lead or some other extremely heavy material. Also, Dave “The Genius” Memont failed to secure the front loading collar like a man. He must have hands like a bitch, because he did not compete in the contest. You are only a cool promoter if you promote and lift in the contest. The result of the loose front collar and the ultra-heavy cross-bar was that the weights ended up falling off on my World Record attempt and my lift was disqualified.
One of many times it just wasn’t “meant to be.”
By using the fiberlass cross-bar, Mannino can press down on it as hard as he wants to and it appears it will retain its natural shape. Also, it looks to be so light that it will not interfere in the pull-to-height or angle of the loading pipe.
Many other things are intriguing about the Texas Fella’s Euro Set-up. They are using a solid steel loading bar. It will be interesting to see how numbers are affected by using an implement with such a heavy loading bar. Will it make tilting easier or more difficult? Will the length play a factor? Will plates loaded on the bar take up so much acreage that only a nub of it will be jutting out from the plates? It will be interesting to see, as well, how the size of the plates being used affect tilt as well.
In the end, without a doubt this is definitely the most Pimped out Euro-Pinch in existence. Paul and Eric truly love the sport to invest that much money into it. Eleiko calibrated plates are not cheap, no matter where you buy them, and the rest of the set-up right down to the collars and the bull-nose shaping of the stainless steel loading bar were all appreciable expenses tambien.
My hat is off to these two for being a good example of taking pride in the sport of Grip, as well as showmanship and playing to the power of social media by cutting up a classic like this for all to see and share.
I do think Paul’s little raps could have been better if done with a fat lip of Copenhagen, and with Eric Milfeld scratching a record or doing beat-box off to the side, perhaps next to the fern int he garage.
All the best in your training and Happy New Year to you!
I’ve recently come to know that some people do not realize that I run another website called The Grip Authority, so I wanted to make a post here to talk about what the Grip Authority is, what you can find there, and also to share some feedback I have gotten from some of my subscribers I work with there.
The Grip Authority originally started out as a page where we talked about the benefits of Grip Strength training, since back when we first started speaking at seminars no one really knew what Grip was or why it would be important to talk about training for hand strength.
Now, fast forward about 8 years and all kinds of sites speak specifically about Grip Training and why it is important to do so.
Unfortunately, many of those sites provide the same recycled content, advice and exercises.
In the summer of 2009, I decided I was going to take Grip Strength instruction, Feat of Strength execution, and Grip Sport Preparation to a whole other level and began plans for turning the Grip Authority website into an affordable monthly membership site for those who wanted to work with me toward their goals.
I launched The Grip Authority in January of 2010. Since then I have covered a wide variety of topics that have included very common topics such as Gripper Training, Nail and Steel Bending, and many varieties of Pinch Training, plus other lesser known types of training such as Anvil Lifting.
Nearly 100% of the content I provide is by request of the subscribers in one way or another. For instance, with each new member, I ask them for their top three goals and with this information, I am able to provide content for them that will help them accomplish what they want to where Grip Strength is concerned.
For example, one of my most recent subscribers is a woman trainer from California who is gunning for the Big 6 Feats of Strength: Braced Bending, Non-braced Bending, Phonebooks, Cards, Horseshoes, & Nail Driving. I am preparing a coaching video specifically for her on her short steel non-braced bending technique.
Another feature that I have begun including on a monthly basis is a coaching call recording. I take questions from the members throughout the month and compile them for an mp3 that the members can download and listen to at their convenience. It’s all about helping them attain their goals.
TGA has very little Hair Metal content, unfortunately…
Now, not all of the stuff is made in direct response to what the members are looking for. Sometimes, I bring reports back from trips I take or seminars I do and share my experience, especially if I am training with someone and a technique I use is an eye-opener for them.
For instance, in a trip I took in July of this year, I was swapping stories with Richard Sorin and showing him some stuff with the Blob. I showed him some hand placement and training techniques that I use with Blob and Block Weight Training and afterwards Richard said, “I just learned more in 15 minutes about Grip Training that I have learned in the last 15 years.”
That was an awesome trip that I enjoyed immensely and to hear that I impressed the original Blob lifter with my knowledge made me feel great, so I instantly came back from that trip and shot video of the same techniques I shared with him and I called it “Things I Taught Richard Sorin,” so that my subscribers could benefit from it and put it from action.
I got some feedback on that segment from one of the members, Rick Giese, shortly after posting that segment.
“Just wanted to let you know that your “things I taught Richard Sorin” videos
added a lot of strength to my left hand block weight training. Thanks man,
good stuff, simple yet very effective. Rick Giese”
This has proven to be a huge topic over time, because Block Weight Training is major aspect of many people’s training. Block Weight Training is one of the most beneficial (and yet simple) forms of Grip Training, and there are some things you can do to get a bit better grip on a Block Weight. This can lead to doing a few more reps in Block Weight Deadlifts or Cleans and can really increase your results.
Another of my most recent subscribers, Kyle Lapinsky, said after just a few days of being on the site:
“Some good news – I picked up my 40lb blob today in both hands.
Something I couldn’t do until I signed up on your site. I’m also a lot
closer to closing my #3 COC.”
If you are looking to improve your grip, I can help you get there. You can join today for just $7 at http://www.thegripauthority.com.
By now, I have nearly 100 posts on various topics and am able to get people jump-started toward their goals because I keep things much more organized these days. I also started a Private TGA group on Facebook a few months ago for the members to be able to react with one another, share PR’s they’ve accomplished, send in questions for coaching calls, and discuss training topics.
It remains a work in progress, but I am very happy with how it has progressed as well as how much I’ve been able to help people improve.
I have continued to train my ass off on the Inch Dumbbells the last few weeks.
Even though the Inch Dumbbell and Thick Bar itself was not an event that was part of Gripmas, I continued to train it hard because I was seeing a relationship develop between my performance on the Inch Dumbbell and my Two Hands Pinch lifting, as I highlighted in this article: Continued Progress with the Inch Dumbbell Deadlift.
Here is my first lift, which I luckily caught on tape.
The Inch Dumbbell is named after the traveling strongman, Thomas Inch, who used to take his challenge dumbbell around the country and defy others to lift it. Replicas of it these days are about 172-lbs with a handle approaching 2 inches thick. The implements are cast iron and one piece, so when the globe heads start to rotate so the handle tries to tear out of your hand.
I have since carried the dumbbells a longer distance, but I have not had the opportunity to cut up the videos yet. When I do another batch of editing, I will do my best to get more footage uploaded.
Training continues to go well each time I get to the gym. I have begun training specifically for the Arnold Sports Festival and the Sorinex Mighty Mitts competition. I have not actually been selected yet to compete, nor do I know what the events will be. However, if I wait to be told I am in, then I will be wasting time, and I have a hunch of the general idea of the events, so I am not wasting any time getting started.
If you have any interest at all in going to the Arnold Classic, which is the first weekend in March, then I hope you will come and cheer me on from the crowd. Having the support of the people watching when you are up on stage feels amazing.
I competed at the 2010 Mighty Mitts competition, and was selected to participate in the 2011 competition as well, but I had injured the middle and index fingers on both hands and was able to do almost no Grip Training from February to May, and so I had to write the organizers and tell them I could not make it.
This year, I am not even thinking about that. I am just focusing on training smart and staying healthy, which has been working very well for me over the last few months.
On the work side, I just went to Bucknell University yesterday and shot footage with my good friend, Head Strength Coach, Jerry Shreck. We looked at the system he uses to reduce and eliminate knee injuries in his collegiate athletes, especially his basketball, lacrosse, and volleyball players. I am anxious to bring this project out.
In addition, I am working as hard as I can to finish up Braced Bending: How to Destroy Everything in Your Path. Between computer snags, babysitter call-offs, and other commitments, my progress has slowed, but I know this one is going to be awesome for those looking to bend stuff like wrenches, short, mid-length, and long bars, frying pans, and other things. If this is something you are interested, make sure to get on my Feats of Strength Newsletter below.
Feats of Strength Newsletter
I am also in the planning stages of a collaborative effort with Rick Kaselj on preventing and eliminating forearm pain. We don’t have everything worked out yet, but we do have a general idea of what we want to do and we spoke on the phone earlier this week and he is just as excited about it as I am. While many gripsters, strongmen, and powerlifters come to me for advice on how to fix what they are feeling in their forearms, Rick, I am sure gets even more in his line of work because he covers a much broader scope. I think be working together on this we can really put something together that will help a lot of people.
Another iron I have in the fire is a DVD that I shot the footage for with Steve Slater when I was in Ohio on Strongman Atlas Stones. There was more to shoot when I left his place but we were not at the position to shoot it, so he had to shoot it a few days later. he will be compiling the footage on his end and sending it to me so that I can process the video and get the ball rolling. More on that down the road.
And, I think the last video project I am working on here and there is another documentary on my Two Hands Pinch Record. I had the camera running during every training session and you will be able to see everything I did leading up to the event, including many tactics I have never tried before, but have come to love very much.
That is enough of the updates for now. There is still a ton of stuff I am working on. I will share this at a later date.
The plan for the next post here on the site will be a Diesel Classic. This one has recently come up as a request from multiple people across the land, so I am going to dust it off and post it for all to see soon.
Thanks and all the best in your training.
Jedd
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This past weekend, I competed at the Gripmas Carol, an annual Grip contest promoted by Chris Rice.
Like others have said this was a bittersweet trip for me because Chris has announced that this year’s contest would be the last of its kind he would be holding.
Nevertheless, I made the trip to enjoy the chill of the Ohio air one more time in the Gripmas Contest setting.
I competed in the Elite category. The way Elite level is decided is the Total between RGC Grippers, Two Hands Pinch and IronMind Axle. Once your total hits 800-lbs you are entered into the Elite Category. This put me in competition with Andrew Durniat, my perennial adversary and the 2011 North American Champion in our Division of Grip Sport.
From the beginning of the contest, we knew it would be a close battle. Many times over the years our scores have ended with just 1 to 3 points’ difference when we have battled it out head to head, and this time proved to be no different.
Event 1 – Choked Grippers
The first event was choked Grippers, meaning a hose clamp was used to keep the handles of the gripper at parallel, so only the final portion of the close, the Finish was contested.
This event is a mystery to me. In training, I could not close my 168-rated Elite Gripper and then I ended up closing a 195-rated Super Elite at the contest. How this is possible is beyond me. I have no idea where the extra closing power came from.
My first attempt was on a 191-rated gripper, which I closed easily to my surprise, and which gave me some confidence going into the next three attempts. For my second attempt, I went for the 195, but missed it and when I asked Sean “Doc” Dockery if I was close he said, “Nope.”
Doc has become the go-to judge in Grip, volunteering his time on many occasions over the years fro Chris Rice, and for me as well in this year’s National Championship which was also held at Chris Rice’s facility. He is absolutely the best judge in Grip, if you ask me. So for him to say that I was nowhere near closing the 195, I knew that I was way off, and needed to get serious on attempt three.
My third time to the Gripper Table, I was very nervous. Andrew had just closed a +/- 214-lb gripper, so I knew I had to do some damage on this one and PR on this piece. I was very deliberate on my positioning and on my set and drove the handles home on a secondary pule for a good close of 195.
I don’t recall what I went on for my fourth attempt. It doesn’t really matter because I missed it. Plus, Andrew closed something like a 224-lb #4 gripper. It is a World Record Close for Choked Grippers. Andrew had already staked a solid lead for himself, beating me by nearly 30-lbs. I knew going into the next event, Two Hands Pinch, that I would need to finish about 40-lbs ahead of him in order to even up the score.
Event 2 – Two Hands Pinch
As most of you know, I held the World Record in this lift with going into Gripmas with just over 264-lbs, or 120-kg. However, the word in the Grip Strength Rumor Mill was that Andrew had been training the Two Hands Pinch pretty hard coming into Crooksville, so I knew it was not going to be a cake walk.
Something many of you may not realize, however, is that there are actually two classes of Two Hands Pinch being recorded these days. Recently, the Lightweight Class was instituted and a separate record is maintained for anyone weighing 82.5-kg or less is entered into those standings. Going into Gripmas, the leader in the 82.5-kg class was Daniel Reinard. He set the mark at Leg 3 of World’s Strongest Hands at my gym in October.
However, another member of Durniat’s camp, Brendan Gerber, had been killing the pinch in his training leading up to Gripmas, nearly doubling a weight that would have beat the record. He showed up on the day of the contest and showed everyone what it was like to be 18 again, and took the title – pinching 206-lbs and some change.
Brendan Ferber – 206-lbs
For this event, we used my Euro plates on Doc’s newly built instantly adjustable apparatus, which enabled us to perform the Two Hands Pinch event in one trip up through the weights, starting out around 100-lbs and moving the whole way through without having to clear the weights off and start again for the next thickness. This really improved the event. Normally all the people at 44-mm go, then 48, then 52, etc. But on this day it was one trip through the weights and with a twist of the front collar the spacers could be pulled or replaced and people lifting different widths could feel the intensity all at the same relative time.
My opponent, Andrew Durniat, finished his attempts in the low 230′s, and I began mine in the low 250′s. This was my second competition competing on 58-mm which recently has been feeling like the perfect width in my hands.
I debated going for a new world record on my first attempt. That would have made all of my attempts World Record Attempts, but Chris encouraged me to take a safe lift, which I agreed to. Bombing out would have meant I would have been mathematically eliminated from the contest, so I decided to hit 254-lbs for my first attempt, which was called on YouTube, “the easiest looking lift of 254-lbs ever,” or something along those lines.
1st Attempt – 254
With a legal attempt in the books and 1st place in the event in my pocket, I decided to try to push my record up. My training had been very intense going in and I had implemented training techniques that I never have used previously. Unfortunately, the last week of training I developed the same strange cramping sensation that I have had occasionally in the past which caused me to abort my final session of 2HP training. But once I pulled 254 and felt no pain, I was confident for my first attempt on 268, below.
2nd Attempt – 268
Having my hand slip off the plates like that is very uncommon for me. What I believe happened is I may have left too much chalk on my right thumb, causing it to slip off the plates. This normally isn’t a problem, but in this case, the edge of my thumb got a chunk taken out of it and the contact left my right thumb completely numb and my left thumb partially numb.
Because of the numbness, I took a little extra time for my next attempt at 268.
One thing that I am just now remembering is that my hands were extremely cold going into the pinch. I don’t mean that I wasn’t warmed up – in that regard I was feeling fine, however, my skin was noticeably cold to the touch. I was wearing gloves and hand warmer packets so this should no have been the case, but I had others test the backs of my hands and sure enough everyone said they felt chilled.
I was past the point of caring about my hand temperature now, anyway, so I began my preparation for my third overall attempt and second at 268, this time making sure that my hands were chalked evenly but not too heavily.
3rd Attempt – 268
As you can see in the video, this one was very close. There was no slippage from chalk, but it felt as though I was leaning forward over the apparatus a bit more than normal because I was worried the collar would hit the stick instead of the loading pipe. This got me out of my normal pulling path and I just barely hit the stick. In my recovery to redirect the apparatus, I lost balance and when I set the Euro down, I lost my balance even more, stumbling back and nearly going through the table like Jeff Hardy.
I was seeing stars for a moment because I was squeezing so hard on the implement and tracking the end of the pipe so closely, but I quickly recovered, and let out a chuckle in relief of getting a successful lift.
For my fourth and final attempt, I went for 270. I truly feel that if I would have gotten 268 on the first attempt and not cut my thumb and had it go numb on me that I would have had a successful lift of 270-lbs.
4th Attempt – 270
I was very happy with my performance in the pinch, and not just because I was able to push my number up, but because I was able to regain my composure for the last attempt. In the past when I have broken the record, I have gotten so emotionally overwhelmed that the following attempts are hindered by my inability to control my nerves. This time, however, I was able to get centered and get back on the platform in control. The apparatus felt outstanding, my thumb skin was great, and my back was solid. I just think I was missing a bit of neural connection due to the slipped attempt at 268 and couldn’t regain it in time for the fourth attempt.
By now, Andrew and I were ridiculously close. If memory serves, I had drawn slightly ahead of him, going into the next event, Double Sledge Hammers.
Event 3: Double Sledge Hammers
The Double Sledge Hammer event was the biggest surprise of all for me at Gripmas. I trained my ass off on this thing for months leading into the contest and all I got out of that training was a heap of frustration. Instead of two 12-lb hammers with 30-inch handles, I got two 16-lb sledges with 32-inch handles.
In training, my best performance with my 16′s was a set of two reps with the bare implement and 1 rep with the implement plus 2 washers weighing about 1/2-lb apiece, so I was not sure what to expect using shorter handles and lighter base sledges.
I managed a legal lift of 47.5-lbs in this event, getting beaten only by Andrew who successfully performed 50-lbs. I tried 50-lbs but the first time the additional weights got hung up on the tracks, so I was granted another opportunity. The same thing happened to Andrew. Unfortunately for me, he was able to come back on his second try at 50-lbs and get it – I was not, so he finished 2.5-lbs ahead of me in this event.
Now, going into the medley, he was slightly ahead of me, maybe by .5 points or so. Unfortunately, right now I do not have any footage of the rest fo the events because I put them on Steve Slater’s computer in order to conserve hard drive space and I have not gotten them back yet, but once I get them, I will post them up. This event was very cool. I would agree with others that this was the best contested sledge event that I have seen. If it is contested again, however, I am sawing a couple of inches off my sledges so that I can train this one a bit more effectively.
Event 4: Medley
Chris is famous for devising awesome Medleys. This year he had 25 total implements, but two of them were bonus items, a 60D Nail bent in Reverse style and a 12-inch length of 3/8-inch square stock bent braced over the thigh or knee. These two bonus items could be attempted once 20 challenge items were successfully loaded/lifted. Also, some weights and implements were made more challenging for the heavier weight class and Elite weight class.
Regretfully, I don’t have the video for this event either because the footage is still with Steve Slater. I did however complete 20 challenge items and get to go after both bends, which went down pretty easily. I think I totaled 23 items out of 25, which was one better than Andrew, so now, going into the final event, the Hercules Hold, Andrew had a lead on my by just 64/1000′s of a point.
That is just one reason why I think our proportional scoring system is so great. With Strongman scoring, we just would have been tied, but with the way we keep score in North American Grip Sport, it really shows you how close or how far apart competitors are.
Event 5: Hercules Hold
The Hercules Hold is historically a Strongman event, but it is also a fantastic way to test support grip, and there are many reasons why. First off, Chris used small handles, so hand size was completely eliminated from the equation. Next, because the weight is lifted for the athlete, the event tests grip strength primarily and full body strength or current conditions of the back do not factor in, as in a Farmer’s Hold or Frame Hold.
Again, Chris increased the weight used in each category. He was originally going to have the Elite Division do the same weight as the Opens, in the neighborhood of 264-286 (I can’t recall) but we talked him into going an even 300-lbs per hand.
Not one of my smartest decisions. Support grip like this is my weakest facet of Grip Strength, and Andrew easily handed my ass on a platter. I held the implements for about 23 seconds while he crept close to a minute. Such a large differential that late in the game spelled the end for me as Andrew pulled away handily, finishing about 6 points ahead of me when the cloud of dust settled on the Crooksville landscape.
Regardless of the finish, I was happy with my performances. A PR in Grippers, Euro Pinch, and Sledge Hammers, plus I won my first medley in quite some time.
It will be a shame if Chris sticks with his current decision and runs no more Gripmas Carols. The mid-December drive through Western PA and West Virginia in order to find the Grip Garage nestled in the hills of Ohio will be a trip that I have grown accustomed to making each year and will be sorely missed going forward.
My hat is off to Chris on well run comp, Doc for excellent judging, Tony, a friend of Doc’s who kept score all day long, Teresa for the excellent meal, all the other Gripsters who lent a hand, supported me and the others, all those who brought cookies and apple crisp (Mary Anne) and definitely to Andrew for another excellent performance on the platform.
Next competition on my radar is Mighty Mitts will take place at the Arnold Classic Weekend, I believe the first week in March. I am not sure what the events are yet, but I am already planning my general training for it.
Also, just like two years ago when I first broke the record in the Two Hands Pinch, I will be releasing a documentary DVD of my training. Again, this year, I recorded all of my 2HP Training Workouts and will be compiling it all into a DVD to be released in early 2012.
If you’d like to see my first documentary, The Road to the Record, click the image below.
Before I commence on that project, though, is a DVD I shut with Mike Rinderle on Braced Bending. Once that is out of the way, then I will tackle the next documentary.
Then immediately after that, I will be releasing another DVD with Steve Slater. Together we released Intro to Strongman Training earlier this year and on the Sunday after Gripmas, we shot another one together, thus the reason I needed the extra hard drive space on my camera.
It is sure to be a busy few weeks coming up, but I am striving to bring you the absolute best information for your strength training goals. If you want to know how to bend just about anything in your path, Rindo and I will show you how in our Braced Bending DVD. If you want to see ways that no one else is training Two Hands Pinch, my documentary is for you, and if Strongman is your thing, then you better keep an eye out for this project Slater and I have coming out.